To encourage the exchange of thoughts about Deepak Chopra and his work, we will post your comments, inquiries, and opinions. Please feel free to respond to someone else's comments or questions, or simply post your own. Post a Message | Read the Forum | Sign the Guestbook Please Post Your Comments Name: Email Address: Comments:

A human being is like an iceberg?

In some cases, I guess. I mean, with some you don't need to look below the surface to know what's there, right?

We judge in others what we most deny about ourselve.
We admire in others what we most deny for ourselves.

I look forward to each new word from Deepak. I am a longtime follower. I hope to see him in Atlanta this fall.

Great quote Geoff. It is truly amazing how powerful that realization is. When we can actually stop for a moment and examine the RE-actions we all do 99.9% of the time and realize that we ultimately do have the power to choose otherwise. It's tough to do, but with practice it gets easier. We don't have to be a slave to our past; we don't have to react with the same patterns. In each moment we have the power to change.

I think probably the most powerful means of change is by forgiveness. When we forgive we free ourselves from our history and can choose a more authentic and loving future.

I'd love to hear from people about their experiences / thoughts about forgiveness.

"Within the body there are billions of different particles. Similarly, there are many different thoughts and a variety of states of mind. It is wise to take a close look into the world of your mind and to make the distinction between beneficial and harmful states of mind. Once you can recognise the value of good states of mind, you can increase or foster them."

- The Dalai Lama's Book of Wisdom

((((Sharon)))) thanks for the update. you and Frank have been missed, here! love to you both! by the way, i still listen to the wonderful tapes (Myss) you sent to me, thanks!

Hi Phoenix, i'm glad you liked the quote from Deepak, i thought it was wonderful, too. those simple messages coming from everywhere, seems like existence is trying to tell us something, heh? ;)

hey, Ravi! my trip to Tn was great. what a beautiful place! and meeting Mary Anne, my online friend in Ooltewah, Tn was the highlight, of my trip. her mountain retreat (bed & breakfast) is blossoming into a Onederful reality. i was happy to get in on the ground floor so i can follow her progress. thanks for asking dear friend....

many wonderful changes going on in my life now and some sad ones, too, but it is always great to come here and see everyOne and read the wonderful words that are written here and also to catch up on who is checking in.
Namast� Friends!

Hi there just a quick hello to all you old friends. I was in Calgary about a month or so ago and had dinner with Frank and some of his Sufi friends. I had a great time. I only have time lately to drop in now and again to see how things are going here. Glad they did not shut it down after all. Love to you all - SHaron

Ravi, since the post had my name on it, I thought that you were speaking to me. I can understand that you might feel that what you said ("The person or thing who you think is doing you harm or obstructing your path is not doing it) is universal. But I'm not so certain that that is true on a practical level.

One of the participants at Fall Creek told me that you said that I was not to be trusted. Just wondered if you really said it and, if you did, in what sense you felt you couldn't trust me.

Pax...

Hello all,

Peggy,

The 'quotes' in my last post were not directed at anyone. They are universal.

How on earth could you get that idea three years ago? That was a strange coming together, the AUGUST meeting where we were all strangers to each other, trying to feel and discover our way around.

Anyway, It's cleared up and om shanti, shanti, shanti

J'�tais tr�s surpris de lire des livres sur "Deepak Chopra ". Il touche tellement � la v�rit�. Dans ces paroles beaucoup de chose ce sont �clair�. Merci Deepak Chopra

wow, a church group study book, that's great!
more power to you chopra, dont let the insane idiots get you down"VBS"

Our church will be starting a study group based on Deepak Chopra's latest book "How to know God" Has anyone else studied this book in a discussion group. Suggestions?

hello sir, are you the author of "ageless body, timeless mind"?? PLEASE LET ME KNOW.... ALSO LET ME KNOW MORE ABOUT IT!! Roopa

I have to write in englisht but it isnt my primary languaje, I love your ideas Deepack, but I have a problem, the being of the ego, its existense is the feature of its needing in the reallity, I think in the spirit, but how I will get the peace if the needing of the ego? Write me , please.

Ravi, your last message is beautiful.

You said, "The person or thing who you think is doing you harm or obstructing your path is not doing it." I can't think of anyone who is even trying to do me harm or obstructing my path. It's great to be in that place!

I hope that you have grown past your initial distrust of me from three years ago.

Peggy,

The loss has been all mine.

My boundless spirit reaches out to all things, objects, entities and concepts like 'time' and 'space'. In the grand scheme of Brahma's manifestation of "nowness", it does not matter, what one hears, speaks, touches, tastes, feels or contemplates, for that's ephemeral and shall disappear in the higher truth. A human being is like an iceberg. What's visible is only one seventh of the whole.

The person or thing who you think is doing you harm or obstructing your path is not doing it.

It only looks that way. Circumstances and people are only agents for the delivery of a message.

Coincidencies are not chance things. Events and experiences happening today in our lives are the end result of the sequence that originated a long long time ago.

May goodwill, forgiveness, compassion and kindness forever dwell in our hearts.

May Om's grace light our paths!

With folded hands, in total acquiescence to the noble in us all, I utter the sacred greeting 'namaste'. Om shanti, shanti, shanti

Is Dr. Chopra familiar with "The Grail Message:In The Light of Truth" by Abu-ru-Shin? If so, what is his response it it? Thanks, Tal Fowler

Thanks Geoff!

Ravi, the Namaste that I left for you was an effort to remind myself of the sacredness that is within you. Sometimes your personal style makes that difficult for me. I do remember a time when I felt a lot of warmth for you. And I'm glad that we have met.

Geoff, I can certainly identify with the poem "You and Me"! Do I ever!!!

I can especially identify with the references to aggression and opinions. When I've blown my stack, there has usually been someone around to comment on how I must have stopped taking my medication. I think now they've learned that I'm just naturally crabby. ;-(

Hello friends,

You should have been there. My hour-long luncheon lecture on "The Last Days of The Raj - how a mystical event shaped destiny" at the University Women's Club at the University of Toronto. Forty-five luncheon reservations had been made, but 75 people showed up.

The talk was based on topics covered in my two books:

The Three Verbs of Being

The Latitude Syndrome

An unbelievable miracle occured when power was being transferred by Britain's Mountbatten to India and Pakistan in 1947 and the dark and gloomy clouds of bloodshed, brother murdering brother, no one willing to compromise but ready to fight, bad blood, bad blood everywhere.

Things erupted into a civil war when the astrologers declared the day of transfer of power an inauspicious day!

Then the pure unattached spirit of love appeared on the scene and lo and behold, even Gandhi accepted partition of India. Hearts changed and goodwill descended on the unrelenting politicians. The Brits are puzzled to this day!

How did the miracle come about? Anyone can learn to attain this state in a dire hour of need to shape destiny, to make a difference!

Something I witnessed and experienced; took me years to fully understand the implications of what had happened.

Hi Carol, how was your trip to Tn?

Namaste' to you too, Peggy, I can feel the warmth you packed in it.

Thanx for your patience; trust I didn't bore you all.

I'll be repeating the lectures around San Diego and LA areas in August-September.

Geoff, your message of hope for the silent mental disorder sufferers out there, the forgotten minority because they are not bleeding to death, is reassuring.

Remember, the smaller a minority gets, more inner power it begets. God is a minority of ONE.

Does this answer the question about books?

May Om's grace light your path forever!

Ravi

I'm was talking about his last book ( of Deepack), is really good. :))

Your book is fantastic. It was the light of my mind. Thank you, so much. :))).

To ... I've written a book. It just hasn't been published yet. :)

Hi "All",

This link is posted due to overwhelming popular demand. It is an article entitled "People can recover from mental illness". Interestingly, copies of this article were handed out at the conference I went to recently. Small world.

Clicking on the graphic ought to take you there. If not, stand on your head and recite three times "I'm not crazy. I'm a human being." whilst simultaneously visualising a lovely golden light. If this doesn't work, take two prozac and call me in the morning.

Good Afternoon....had a few minutes to check in and see and absorb what's been written...Peggy...you just rock and dipped the right answer...The Crew Cuts was correct....good on you!!!

Carol...Love those simple Deepak quotes!!! The message seems to be the same...meditate and let out all the noise in your head!!

Kerr....glad to hear to had a wonderful vacation...where did you go???

To.....never wrote a book, however, I have volumes of journals that I have written in and kept for over 20 years......now there's a book in there someplace!!!

Hello friends. Just got back from a long vacation, much needed. Haven't had time to read everything, but have scrolled through some of the stuff, done a lot of skipping...I know it's cheating, but when I have more time, I'll try and do better.

Anyway, glad to see you guys on the screen. : )

Has anybody written a book or made a movie about you're life's journey so far? Fantastic!

Tell us about it.

Namaste'

All this struggling to learn
when all we have to do is remember.

And how do we remember?

We learn to forget. Forget all the
unnecessary stuff that goes
on in our mind.

DEEPAK CHOPRA

Namaste, Ravi.

Hello all,

Peggy, read your comments. I was thinking of your note on action and inaction, where you'd alluded to manna. You're right. The quote I attributed to you was written by someone else.

The 3 verbs was a reference to the model of three verbs, which parallels the three forms of love people wrote about.

Here's what I meant:

The Three Verbs of Being

The Latitude Syndrome

Trust I didn't cause too much confusion. Please keep on posting. You do hit the nail on the head and wake me!

Geoff, what a prolific supplier of wisdom you are!

namaste'from Ravi

Christine: Please contact me in email.

Help!!!! I have lost the CD/Rom titled " The Wisdom Within" I must have this---I am trying to find another to replace. Can you help me find another so I can buy it or something? PLease, please... Thank you, Christine

Good luck with your project!

As Deepak might say, "Anything's possible".

I may post more after I give it more than five seconds thought. :)

Hi Peggy,

How are you? :)

Yes, your comment about dropping pretenses is so spot on. Pity that we have to get to "crisis mode" before we drop them. :)

I was handed a poem at the conference you might like to read. It's called "You & Me". You can find it by clicking here

I'm also having a bit of a re-read of a book few people have heard of. It's called The Three Christs of Ypsilanti. If you ever see it anywhere it's well worth the effort. It tells the story from the 1950's - before tpsychiatrsists discovered their little magic pills - when people were hospitalised for life in many cases.

Anyway, this book tells of a "study" where three people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia were brought together onto one ward of Ypsilanti Hospital (hence the title) and their interactions were recorded. How each man preserved his 'identity' as Jesus Christ when confronted by two others claiming the same identity.

I carried this book around for about ten years - almost like a Bible. Maybe that's too much sharing, Geoff ... :)

I'm half considering transcribing some excerpts to my site - that's after I sift through the 50 pages of notes and impressions I recorded from the conference last week.

Have a good one.

Hello!I try to wright a seminar work about Deepak Chopra's books. The theme is:If the post modern european society can live according to Chopra's ideas? I'd like to recieve all opinions about this question.Thank you. o Chopra's ideas? I'd like to recive all oppinions about this theme!

Marina, any number of things could be causing problems. Will you share a little more about yourself? What would you like to see happen in your life in relation to these teachings?

I feel empty and unable to fully actualise these spiritual teachings? What could be the reasons?

Phoenix, trying to figure it out was driving me nuts so I cheated and looked it up. Does the title "Sh-Boom" by the Crewcuts sound familiar? ;-)

Geoff, I know the main actor and cannot think of his name. I think he was in AN UNMARRIED WOMAN. I want to say Alan Bates, but I'm not sure. The female lead is a very young Genvieve Bujold. It is a meaningful comedy set in a French village during WWI. The inmates of the local asylum take over the town. Very cathartic!

I know what you mean about the closeness among patients. It's rather astounding what can happen to relationships when pretenses have fallen away.

Peggy, No I haven't heard of that movie - any hints as to who's in it or what it's all about. I just heard that Patch Adams is coming to Australia in August. Can't wait to go along and see him in person.

Have a good one.

Do you know something I don't? :)

Actually, I wouldn't mind being "locked away for good" - an interesting phrase if you think about it. After all, my very first Unityexperience was in a psych ward and the most "unconditional" people I've met have also been 'inside'. If you know what I mean. :)

The two days at the conference were refreshing and re-energising. To see so many kindred spirits trying to reform mental health services in spite of overhwelming obstcles was inspiring ... more details later ...

You are a devil, Hadi. :)

'afternoon all......just a short peek in to let you know that I had a wonderful conversation with Cara this morning..She told me to tell you that she's been out straight....she does get a fleeting moment or two to browse through and read when she can and promises that she'll be on line again soon. We have also set yet another date to meet again...this time for sure...in September...I feel as though I have known her all my life. This forum does bring together kindred spirits..

Peggy...now the question is who sang the song and made it popular in the 50's..I know that the Mills Brothers sang it....ah.....use those dendrites and start thinking!!!.... x

Cindy, Thornton Wilder said that it is saints and poets who fully realize the wonder of life while they are still living. If you haven't read his play OUR TOWN in a while, you might enjoy it now.

Terry, everybody makes a difference! I read a short story once in which a modern man chose to go back in time to hunt dinosaurs. While he was "away," he stepped on a butterfly wing. Yet when he returned to the present, things had shifted slightly from the way they were when he left. Even the language was a tiny bit different. Okay. So it was fiction. :-)

The difference that you make is not just in the people immediately surrounding you. Your legacy gets passed on to all they know and to all of their generations to come.

Something you said in describing the Irish has stuck with me: "They just want to be happy." No matter what our differences are, THAT is one thing that is very basic in all of us.

Dave is reading aloud the book WHO MOVED MY CHEESE? I think that you would like it and that it would be useful to you in your work with others.

Phoenix, I will get even with you for making that song from the fifties ring in my mind! AAAARRRRGGGHHH! :-O

(((Hadi)))

Geoff, have you ever seen the movie THE KING OF HEARTS? I have a sneaking suspicion that you would identify with it as much as I do. Get the subtitled version instead of the dubbed if you can. I think it came out in the sixties or seventies and became a cult favorite.

Soak up the weekend! Celebrate!

I think they locked Geoff up for good this time. ;)

'Afternoon all...just dashed in to say that after reading through some of the messages there was a constant word that popped in...and that was "deam'. I just finished reading don Miguel Ruiz "The Four Agreements". He is a Toltec Healer and has a decent message to convey...however, I liked what he has said about our lives being 'but a dream'....(Wasn't that a song from the 50's? Life is but a dream sweetheart....)The messages that we receive from our special place within, be it our God within or whatever one wishes to call it...are part of what was...the same message came through when I polished off Shirley Maclaines "Camino" about her walk in Spain and the 'dreams' and messages that came to her....the main tought was simply being aware to receive the 'dream'...we've all been here before and there so much to remember...I think Hadi said something pertaining to the 're-memberiing' of people, places and things...it just takes some time to explore the consciousness and be open enough to receive these dream messages....

Geoff and Chris have mentioned dreams in their last messages..and I find the sycronicity enlightening....this must be something that I must look into a bit more deeply...There are times when on can go on a spirit walk and receive messages, accoring to MacLaine...it doesn't have to necessarily be on the Camino trail....

Josie...are you writing a book? The more I read the more questions I have...yet, it somehow all boils down to the same thing...keep still, go within and the answers are all there....I found this nead quote by Rumi which says......."The day you were born, a ladder was set up to help you escape from this world". Guess this is what is meant to reach for enlightment, to find you God within and reach the bliss that we are all intended to find....x

Good observation Cindy. The "young" are going to change the world (haven't been fully programmed), and the "old" have accepted the fact they aren't (going to change the world).

Namaste'

It sometimes seems to me that only the very young and very old fully realize the wonder of their own lives.

I am an avid reader of Rumi and very much enjoyed Deepak Chopra's 'Love Poems Of Rumi'.... I have also discovered that there is a CD of various artists reading from this book called "A Gift Of Love" - but I cannot seem to find it anywhere. Please let me know more about it. Thank you. Bob.

Hi, this is all new to me. It is the first time that I have attempted to communicate on line and I'm not too sure how to accomplish this. I recently had a tumor in one of my parathyroid glands and in the surgery to remove this, they decided to remove half of my thyroid also. It has been a tough time rebalancing. I had this condition for a long time and the high calcium level that I was showing was ignored, so that is probably why it has taken a time for me to recover. I am feeling much much better; however there are a few things that I feel are related that persist. Is there anyway to get some help with this? I have not found anyone here who can help me and I am searching for these answers now. Thank you to anyone who might have a suggestion. Can we speak to Deepak Chopra and ask some questions. Again, thank you, Delight Payseno at [email protected]

G'day folks,

Just a quick visit, I'm off to day 2 of a Mental Health Conference tomorrow. :) Haven't listened to as many words in one day for a very long time. Will be interesting to see if any of the "ideas" get turned into "reality" as always ...

Just found this gem from a talk by Jack Kornfield about mindfulness. Click on the link to read the whole discourse. It's well worth it.

The first is learning to be present, which itself is a very wonderful thing, because "here" and "now" and "in the present" are the only places that we can appreciate life to begin with. Otherwise, it's kind of second-hand, what happened a few years ago�that's a nice memory�or what we fantasize about. Where can you really appreciate this life we're given? Only in the present.

Also, there is something else which interests a lot of people and can only be found in the present, and that is love. If you want to love a person or you want to be loved�some of you perhaps know anyway, right? -- where does love take place? Or "when" is a better question. Again, it's a nice memory, "Gee, I was in love once or twice" -- or more in some of your cases. It was very nice. It evokes a nice thing to remember it. Or it's in the future, "Oh, if only I could meet that right wonderful person," or "this person that I live with," or "this family," or whatever, "if they would change so they would become right, then I could fall in love all over again with them or be happy with them." The only place that you can really love a person or be loved is in the present. No other possibility for it. All the rest is fantasy.

Also in the present comes the possibility of touching our intuition, of creativity, of clarity; all kinds of things. So the first aspect of awareness is simply learning in some way to live more fully here in our present reality. If you learn nothing else from meditation practice than that, you get your money's worth�especially since there's no charge ...

Click here to read the rest.

Have a good one, as we say down here in Oz.

Terry, I knew exactly why you used "tree" instead of "branch." I was thinking "olive grove myself!

Chris, the shift from understanding to experiencing is a tremendous step. I echo Terry's "right on!"

"Put down your knitting, your book and your broom -- come hear the music play..."

Right on Chris, that "shift" is great, and really says you've come to "understand" (at a deeper level) that our intellects aren't going to "DO" it for us.

You've reached a "place" of comfortability that the physical world just "IS", and you can handle "whatever". (At least this is what I'm perceiving).

Happy for you, as now you'll be able to truly "listen" to the inner voice prompting you to much greater "things", and there just aren't anymore "big deals".

Namaste'

Geoff, things are certainly not as they seem or otherwise. Very nicely said, though I don�t �think� I get it, �I� DO get it. Thanks for the great links too!

Thanks Peggy for the movie recommendation. I tend to avoid movies with subtitles because I can either read the subtitles or watch the movie but not both due to my dyslexia. Maybe I could rent it and watch it twice� :-)

I read the link to the IROOT:NOTian link. Interesting. I can see how the �idea� of �everything is illusion� might conceivably cause some caustic conditions. To me though, it�s not an idea really. Any idea that I may have is a part of the same illusion, including the idea that it is an illusion. :-) This can�t possibly make sense when examined from an ego perspective. One can choose to believe it, or not. It really doesn�t make much difference. Ego will fight to defend it�s ideas one way or the other.

Recently I�ve become less and less interested in �ideas� and more and more interested in �experiences�. I�ve found I have become less interest in �understanding� the world, and more interested in experiencing it. This is a huge deal for me coming from a scientific and engineering upbringing. It is a subtle shift in the internal dialogue from something like, �I think X, Y and Z and I need to defend these thoughts because I am defined by these them.� to �Simply experiencing X, Y and Z. Period. No need to defend them or even processes them intellectually unless I choose to.� The difference is quite striking.

Enjoy the day everyone!

Right on Pegasus!

As you know it used to be an "olive branch", but at the time, I thought a "tree" was more representative.

Geoff, I love the Zen proverb!

Ravi, the "olive tree" that Terry said that he loved is a traditional metaphor for peace.

For those of you who like films that are thought-provoking, may I recommend OPEN YOUR EYES. It deals with the question of reality vs. dreams. It has subtitles, but they are very non-intrusive and worth the effort. Chris, I thought of you when I saw it.

Ravi, I don't necessarily disagree with your ideas. But you have misquoted me:

"Peggy also referred to it. 'If we are all enlightened then what follows?'"

You are answering a question that I did not ask and no one else asked it either -- at least not in the last two months. I'm not certain what you are referring to.

And I'm not at all certain why you refer to emotional, mentaland spiritual as verbs. They are adjectives.

Finally, you and I do not agree on what Hadi said.

I wish you well but you have left me puzzled.

Peace, merriment, and light...

Re: Parkinson's disease, i read on a site that it was dealt with in ayurvedic teachings. Does any one know where to lead me to learn more about this???. please email me if so.

I have a dear departed friend who was also a Mystic and teacher. He has written wonderful books that tell us much the same things that Depak Chopra is saying. If anyone is interested, please go see some samples of his work at www.williamsamuel.com. It is a nice complement to the light that Deepak is sharing. Thanks, Sandy Jones

UNIVERSAL SYSTEM Knowing "ALLAH" http://www.ahmedhulusi-kavramlar.org FREE Islamic Link,ONLINE BOOKS,5 languages(English-Turkce-Deutsch-Francais-Russian)Download Free.. Our works are not copyrighted.

'Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise' - Zen proverb

I've been thinking a bit about what is holding us back from the experience of unconditional love. Deepak talks a lot about labels in Way of the Wizard. Most of the time we're not seeing and experiencing 'reality'. We're seeing and experiencing and reacting to the labels we've attached to reality and the belief system we've constructed based on those labels. You can only see someone as a 'stranger' and treat them as a 'stranger' once you have labeled them as a 'stranger' and learned to think of them as a 'stranger'. The same applies to any label under the sun - you name it - weirdo - loser - loony - lefty - miserable sod - psychotic - boring - twit - normal - crazy - friend - enemy ...

There are some excellent meditations where you systematically 'peel away' all the labels you have attached to yourself and to others. Peel enough of them away and you may arrive at the 'place' referred to in this definition of Namaste -
"I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides. I honor the place in you, where lies your love, your light, your truth and your beauty. I honor the place in you where...if you are in that place in you...and I am in that place in me....then there is only one of us."

Trouble is, we tend to spend a heck of a lot of our time 'away' from that place. :)

Ravi, you could say that poem was 17 years in the making. It was originally much darker than what it is now.

Wonderful to see the response to that excerpt from Emissary of Light. It's the sort of book if you had given it to me just two years ago I would have laughed at. I would have said something like, "Oh, this guy has got to be kidding if he expects people to believe that story!"

Here's a further excerpt in which James wonders if indeed anyone will believe him. I can relate to his feelings. I've had many experiences where I have thought I'm not going to tell anyone about that, they'll think I have flipped. And in a sense I have. :)

"But they will think I'm crazy."

"The world is crazy," she said. "Since when has the world been so wise? You'll be telling them that they are made of love. Simple. You'll say that heaven is real and that they can experience it right now. They don't have to die or experience a hundred more lifetimes. This is what everyone is dying to hear. They've just been waiting for someone to say it with certainty. And that's what you'll do. Of course, some people will think you're crazy. But others will understand. Those are the people you're being sent to, I'm sure."

Hi all,

Geoff,

I spent time reading and rereading the material you referred me to.

Your poem is so real and pertinent from many angles. How long were you at it?

My humble offering:

The books and posts all seem to be saying that 'love' exists in three forms:

A doable thing (Hadi said it was a verb)(mental)

An emotion to bond with an object/person (Emotional)

A state of bliss (spiritual)

Pretty much the 3 Verbs.

The bliss you experienced after James Twyman's lesson probably belongs to the 'state' kind.

Such experiences are mostly ephemeral. Second time around the episode will be shorter and less intense.

How do we enter the state for long periods and hopefully, permanently?(What Buddha achieved) Peggy also referred to it. "If we are all enlightened then what follows?" Peggy, then it's Utopia - freedom from suffering.

I have postulated that there exists a subtle 'mechanism', (I call it "The Cantilever Effect") which takes one from the 'emotion' to the 'bliss state'. This can be realized and the technique can be easily learnt.

It's 'The Cantilever Effect' in operation during deep prayer for some and meditative-listening of instrumantal music for others.

The magic of the 'Cantilever Effect' is that the 'bliss state' can be repeatedly entered by following the same practice and the duration and the enjoyment of 'love state' increases with each episode.

Try it for you have been there and you'll know what I'm saying (unknowingly we enter this state during sleep for short bursts).

I offer this in all earnestness and sincerity. Namaste'

Maybe we are all dreaming. One day, the universe itself will "wake up," and we will find ourselves in a state of unimaginable bliss. In the meantime, we are "down here," doing whatever we think is best. The "illusion" of pain, loss, and fear still hurts. Mystics have advised that by meditating you can transcend much of the suffering. Let us assume that you transcended all of it. Would that mean the material world is an illusion, or just how you perceive and relate to it?

- from "Reality & Illusion"

Funny thing is that nobody ever says "this is all just a dream" when they're feeling fabulous! :)

Halya, Mezzie,
The relationship between a loving parent and a child is the ideal of unconditional love.
A loving parent forgives stealing, cheating and even murder.
A loving parent finds his/her child the most beautiful creation, and sees no ugliness.
A loving parent believs that his/her child is the most wonderful creature on earth, divine and a source of eternal bliss.
Not all parents love their children unconditionally. And most people do not love everyone in this world unconditionally.
But, the ideal exists - it is real. It is possible!

Guess I kinda just re-stated what mazzie said. (great minds---ha)

The Dalai Lama suggested that we greet everyone as if we've known them before (as a "method").

Also, a very arrogant/egotistical young man was told by his teacher to go down to Hollywood & Vine, or 7th or 8th St in downtown LA, find someone that he "looked down on", and follow them around until he "saw" them differently. To find something "good" about them. As I understand it, he had to do this for 6 months.

Today he is a close friend of Dalai Lama and involved in seeking the freedom of Tibet from Communist rule.

For me it's more of an "attitude" I'd say. Kinda like Father Flanagan's "There are no bad boys", only it includes everyone.

It's also a willingness and openness to "help" where possible and warranted.

HALYA - about loving everyone unconditionally, I think that if we actually did love everyone unconditionally, we -robably wouldnt have a need to be here at all!!....However, in an endeavour to attain this, I -ersonally believe that EVERYONE has some amount of 'good', for want of a better word, in them. This may sometimes take some digging to find at times but if we can concentrate on finding even a little of the divine in all, we all benefit from it.......Just my -ersonal o-inion anyhow....MAZZIE

Hi all, I love your posts on love, but how on earth does one love everyone unconditionally? It sounds really great, but it seems like such a high ideal that it's really frustrating....any practical suggestions?

Josie, then get "out" of your mind and into your heart. Whenever I am in my mind, there are indeed nothing but blocks. Only someone who is truly "out" of their mind, can live the life they have imagined. I use a Thoreau quote often,

"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.

He will pass an invisible boundary; new, universal, and more liberal laws will begin to establish themselves around him; and he will live with the license of a high order of beings.

In proportion as he simplifies his life, the laws of the universe will appear less complex�

If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.

Peggy, apples and their side effects of living life through my second chakra (1st if you are a Margot Anand fan), have caused enough trouble in this lifetime. I'll stick to pears. They are just as sweet but less tempting and you get a nice warning bellyache if you eat too many... ;-)

Hi Sister!

Syncronicity abounds.

TO All! Help! I have been suffering from mind blocks that prevented me from moving forward. If possible could you would you throw me some questions that you would like resolved or answered in a book that you would purchase.

I am a psychologist working with individuals, groups and communities. My special interests are satisfified by running "Big Picture" workshops for young people (particularly those who have hit the wall), and those special people who work with young people. Currently looking for anyone who lives the philophical and practical belief systems promologated by Deepak Chopra, Conversations With God, and so many others...One of my current roles is working with a commnuity organisation to develop new and better ways for strenghtening families within the City of Caloundra, Queensland, Australia. Families and community are made up of individuals, with the exact same fears and aspirations. How does one go about enabling commnunities for healing using these belief systems? Appreciate comments. Paul

"No matter what we feel or know;
no matter what our potential gifts or talents,
only action bring them to life.
Those of us who only think we understand concepts,
such as commitment, courage, and love,
one day discover that we only know when we act;
doing becomes understanding".

Wow!

Es muy emocionante encontrar la pagina del dr.Chopra., Felicidades, necesitamos en M�xico informaci�n y comunicaci�n con el, en espa�ol para que le sea accecible a la gente sus importantes conceptos., Por favor si existe alguna forma de establecer contacto con el dr. Chopra en idioma espa�ol, favor de informarmelo. Gracias y felicidades.

"TRY" harder yx!

Namaste'

FINIS

I guess first of all, society will have to change a hell-of-a-lot before people will even THINK their missing the mark.

Young people are not that "far" away from that "original" condition.

In fact most of them have a feeling that "somethings wrong with this picture".

It's about the age of twelve that they DECIDE to follow the "Jones Syndrome"; becoming "somebody".

Making decisions ("thoughts" accepted sub-consciously) about who they are, where they fit in, etc., based on what they've been exposed to, so far, along the journey. This is when they "loose" them-selves, because they haven't been taught how to look at what, how, and why they think the way they do.

Something that just "clicked" with me not long ago was, "Who the hell am I to go against what has been said over the centuries by the Master's"?

Buddha said.... "Life is suffering". Jesus said........"in the world you will have tribulation". And more recently, Scott Peck said........"Life is difficult", so where do "I" get off thinking utopia will EVER be reached on this plane of existence?

Ahhhhhhhh Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Namaste'

in Coquitlam City, BC WHEREAS Falun Dafa, also known as Falun Gong, is a traditional Chinese qigong (self-cultivation)practice designed to improve the mind and body through exercises and meditation.It espouses the principles of Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, taking these as a guidance for conduct and thought. Merely eight years since its public introduction, falun dafa has spread to more than forty countries around the world and has come to be practiced by more than one hundred million preple; AND WHEREAS Enabling countless individuals to turn away from self-destructive thinking and behavior, such as drug, alcohol and tobacco use, falun dafa has equipped people with the understanding necessary to endure the hardest and unjust of tribulations without resorting to violence. It is apolitical and is a popular exercise that improves people's health and spiritual well being. The practitioners of falun dfafa have remained true to the teachings of Mr. Li Hongzhi, who has worked tirelessly to convey falun dafa from China to the rest of the world and has touched the lives of countless preple in many countries, earning an international reputation. NOW THEREFORE I, Joe Trasolini, Mayor of the City of Port Moody do hereby proclaim July 20, 2000 as "Falun Dafa Day" in the City of Port Moody. Dated this 11th day of July, 2000 Joe Trasolini Mayor 2.July 20th, 2000 is proclaimed as "Falun Dafa Day" in Port Moody City, BC CITY OF COQUITLAM ----------------- Proclamation WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has improved over 100 million preple's physical and mental Health worldwide, improved their moral standard and deepened their Understanding of life, humanity and the universe; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa is a pure cultivation and practice system with an ancient Chinese heritage emphasis on the principle of Zhen-Shan-Ren (Truthfulness - Benevolence - Forberance); and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has played a significant role in bringing peace to the world and leading people toward wisdom and enlightenment; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has helped numerous people to turn away from bad habits and to pursue more meaningful lives; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa's remarkable contribution to human society has been recognized world wide: NOW THEREFORE: I, Jon Kingsbury, Mayor of the City Coquitlam, do hereby proclaim July 20th, 2000 as "FALUN DAFA DAY" Jon Kingsbury MAYER 3.Reports from Victoria Health Show Vancouver and Victoria Falun Dafa practitioners successfully introduced Falun Dafa to Victoria Approximately 20 Falun Dafa practitioners from Vancouver and Victoria participated the annual Canadian National Health Show in Victoria on January 22 and 23, 2000, and introduced Falun Dafa to this beautiful capital city of British Columbia. January is normally the raining season for Victoria, but there were no rain during the two days and we even had sunny breaks on Sunday. Our Falun Dafa booth was right at the entrance of the health show and it was impossible to miss the big red sign "Falun Gong". Hundreds of people stopped at our desk, asking for information, watching the exercise instruction tape, reading the posters and flyers, inquirying the situation in China and signing the Falun Dafa international appeal. A couple in their early 60s was the first to approach us. They were very excited to see the Falun Gong sign and told us that they have been tracking information about Falun Dafa for a couple of months and were looking forward to this moment when they knew that we would be at the health show. Another family of five drove down from the upper island especially for obtaining more information of Falun Dafa. They learned the five sets of exercises and came back the next day to join our group practice in front of the BC Parliament Buildings. More than 200 flyers have been distributed. Even after the show was closed, a gentleman approached to our desk, asked some questions and then took the last copy of Zhuan Falun with great satisfaction on his face. ... During the show, practitioners were invited to give two demonstrations of the exercises each day. Accompanying the slow, smooth and elegant movements and peaceful music, a practitioner introduced the exercises to the audiance. Many people were deeply impressed. One audiance said, "I cannot believe how gentle the movements are." Another wonders "wah, you can really concentrate in such a noisy surroundings?!" Many others told us they felt the energy flow from the demonstration. At the meantime of the health show in the afternoons, group practice and information distribution were carrying on in front of the BC parliament buildings. Many local residents and tourists passed by. Some stopped and watched our group exercises. Some took the flyers. And a number of persons learned the exercises on the spot. In the evening, practitioners gathered together and exchanged their experiences. Bronwen, a practitioner in Victoria who "accidentally" obtained the Dafa a month ago, was so happy and grateful to have this rare opportunity of group practice and study. She hopes she can soon practice in a group in Victoria. The next day, four persons called her and wanted to learn Falun Dafa. Apparently, it won't be long her hope will be fulfilled: there will be a group practice site in Victoria very soon. After watching the demo, learning the exercises and talking with practitioners, a lady from Duncan (a community 80 kilometers north of Victoria) invited us to give introductory workshops to her community. "I feel so good to hear this" when she learned that all of Falun Dafa activities must be free and we do not accept any donation. Looking at her bright smile, we suddenly realize that many predestined and kind-hearted people are waiting for us to bring the Falun Dafa to them. It is our responsibilities as practitioners to further spread the Dafa and let more people know the truth of Falun Gong. Vancouver Practitioners January 24, 2000 4.First Falun Dafa Experience Sharing Conference in Greater Vancouver Is Great Success! The first Falun Dafa experience sharing conference in Great Vancouver was hold on Dec. 11,1999.� There were over a hundred practitioners from Vancouver, Seattle and Toronto attending the conference.� About 20 people delivered speeches,� on their great health improvements, and Xinxing upgrade since practicing Falun Dafa. Audience were deeply impressed both by the experiences of Chinese practitioners,� and by the real stories from the western speakers and their progresses. Following the speeches were group discussions. Practitioners not only showed deep concerns,but also felt the encouragement from the fellow practitioners in China. They suffered so much,� but cherish Dafa much more than their lives. Also showed was the document video: "Falun Gong --The Real Story".After watching it,� one western lady said she was so touched by the story that she did not want to leave. During this conference, many visitors came to show their interests in Falun Dafa and signed the petition form as well.� Most of Dafa books, intruction video and audio tapes were sold out.� The conference was a great success! 5.Falun Dafa Public Introduction at Victoria Health Show Date:�������������� Sat January 22 & Sun January 23, 2000 ������������������������������������� Exhibit floor open Sat 10am ~ 7pm �������������������������������������� Sun 11am ~ 6pm Location:�������������� Victoria Conference Centre� (in the heart of the Downtown Victoria, adjacent to the Empress Hotel) Public Demo:�������� 11:30 am and 1:30 pm, Saturday, half hour duration ������������������������������������ 12:30 pm and 2:30 pm, Sunday,�� half hour duration 6.Falun Dafa Public Introduction at Vancouver Health Show Date:���������������� 10am ~ 7pm, Saturday, November 20, 1999� ������������������������� 11am ~ 6pm, Sunday,�� November 21, 1999 Location:��������� The Plaza of Nations, Vancouver� ������������������������ (Northeast corner off the Cambie Bridge, south of the BC Stadium) Public Demo:��� 11:30am and 1:30pm, Saturday, duration: half hour ������������������������� 12:30pm and 2:30pm, Sunday� , duration: half hour 7.Falun Dafa 9-day Seminar in SFU Location: WMX (West Mall Complex) 2533, SFU Burnaby Campus� Time: 7:00pm ~ 9:00pm, Sept.20th(Mon)~28th(Tue)� Contact: 2949482 Fanny, 4649634 June, 4698612 Sue 8.Falun Dafa Public Presentation in SFU� �Falun Dafa will set up one desk at SFU club days.� �Time: 10:00am~3:00pm� Sept. 13,14 and 15.� �There will be two exercise demo at 1:00pm~2:00pm on Sep. 14 and 15 .� �Everybody is welcome!

in Coquitlam City, BC Proclamation WHEREAS Falun Dafa, also known as Falun Gong, is a traditional Chinese qigong (self-cultivation)practice designed to improve the mind and body through exercises and meditation.It espouses the principles of Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, taking these as a guidance for conduct and thought. Merely eight years since its public introduction, falun dafa has spread to more than forty countries around the world and has come to be practiced by more than one hundred million preple; AND WHEREAS Enabling countless individuals to turn away from self-destructive thinking and behavior, such as drug, alcohol and tobacco use, falun dafa has equipped people with the understanding necessary to endure the hardest and unjust of tribulations without resorting to violence. It is apolitical and is a popular exercise that improves people's health and spiritual well being. The practitioners of falun dfafa have remained true to the teachings of Mr. Li Hongzhi, who has worked tirelessly to convey falun dafa from China to the rest of the world and has touched the lives of countless preple in many countries, earning an international reputation. NOW THEREFORE I, Joe Trasolini, Mayor of the City of Port Moody do hereby proclaim July 20, 2000 as "Falun Dafa Day" in the City of Port Moody. Dated this 11th day of July, 2000 Joe Trasolini Mayor 2.July 20th, 2000 is proclaimed as "Falun Dafa Day" in Port Moody City, BC CITY OF COQUITLAM ----------------- Proclamation WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has improved over 100 million preple's physical and mental Health worldwide, improved their moral standard and deepened their Understanding of life, humanity and the universe; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa is a pure cultivation and practice system with an ancient Chinese heritage emphasis on the principle of Zhen-Shan-Ren (Truthfulness - Benevolence - Forberance); and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has played a significant role in bringing peace to the world and leading people toward wisdom and enlightenment; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa has helped numerous people to turn away from bad habits and to pursue more meaningful lives; and WHEREAS: Falun Dafa's remarkable contribution to human society has been recognized world wide: NOW THEREFORE: I, Jon Kingsbury, Mayor of the City Coquitlam, do hereby proclaim July 20th, 2000 as "FALUN DAFA DAY" Jon Kingsbury MAYER 3.Reports from Victoria Health Show Vancouver and Victoria Falun Dafa practitioners successfully introduced Falun Dafa to Victoria Approximately 20 Falun Dafa practitioners from Vancouver and Victoria participated the annual Canadian National Health Show in Victoria on January 22 and 23, 2000, and introduced Falun Dafa to this beautiful capital city of British Columbia. January is normally the raining season for Victoria, but there were no rain during the two days and we even had sunny breaks on Sunday. Our Falun Dafa booth was right at the entrance of the health show and it was impossible to miss the big red sign "Falun Gong". Hundreds of people stopped at our desk, asking for information, watching the exercise instruction tape, reading the posters and flyers, inquirying the situation in China and signing the Falun Dafa international appeal. A couple in their early 60s was the first to approach us. They were very excited to see the Falun Gong sign and told us that they have been tracking information about Falun Dafa for a couple of months and were looking forward to this moment when they knew that we would be at the health show. Another family of five drove down from the upper island especially for obtaining more information of Falun Dafa. They learned the five sets of exercises and came back the next day to join our group practice in front of the BC Parliament Buildings. More than 200 flyers have been distributed. Even after the show was closed, a gentleman approached to our desk, asked some questions and then took the last copy of Zhuan Falun with great satisfaction on his face. ... During the show, practitioners were invited to give two demonstrations of the exercises each day. Accompanying the slow, smooth and elegant movements and peaceful music, a practitioner introduced the exercises to the audiance. Many people were deeply impressed. One audiance said, "I cannot believe how gentle the movements are." Another wonders "wah, you can really concentrate in such a noisy surroundings?!" Many others told us they felt the energy flow from the demonstration. At the meantime of the health show in the afternoons, group practice and information distribution were carrying on in front of the BC parliament buildings. Many local residents and tourists passed by. Some stopped and watched our group exercises. Some took the flyers. And a number of persons learned the exercises on the spot. In the evening, practitioners gathered together and exchanged their experiences. Bronwen, a practitioner in Victoria who "accidentally" obtained the Dafa a month ago, was so happy and grateful to have this rare opportunity of group practice and study. She hopes she can soon practice in a group in Victoria. The next day, four persons called her and wanted to learn Falun Dafa. Apparently, it won't be long her hope will be fulfilled: there will be a group practice site in Victoria very soon. After watching the demo, learning the exercises and talking with practitioners, a lady from Duncan (a community 80 kilometers north of Victoria) invited us to give introductory workshops to her community. "I feel so good to hear this" when she learned that all of Falun Dafa activities must be free and we do not accept any donation. Looking at her bright smile, we suddenly realize that many predestined and kind-hearted people are waiting for us to bring the Falun Dafa to them. It is our responsibilities as practitioners to further spread the Dafa and let more people know the truth of Falun Gong. Vancouver Practitioners January 24, 2000 4.First Falun Dafa Experience Sharing Conference in Greater Vancouver Is Great Success! The first Falun Dafa experience sharing conference in Great Vancouver was hold on Dec. 11,1999.� There were over a hundred practitioners from Vancouver, Seattle and Toronto attending the conference.� About 20 people delivered speeches,� on their great health improvements, and Xinxing upgrade since practicing Falun Dafa. Audience were deeply impressed both by the experiences of Chinese practitioners,� and by the real stories from the western speakers and their progresses. Following the speeches were group discussions. Practitioners not only showed deep concerns,but also felt the encouragement from the fellow practitioners in China. They suffered so much,� but cherish Dafa much more than their lives. Also showed was the document video: "Falun Gong --The Real Story".After watching it,� one western lady said she was so touched by the story that she did not want to leave. During this conference, many visitors came to show their interests in Falun Dafa and signed the petition form as well.� Most of Dafa books, intruction video and audio tapes were sold out.� The conference was a great success! 5.Falun Dafa Public Introduction at Victoria Health Show Date:�������������� Sat January 22 & Sun January 23, 2000 ������������������������������������� Exhibit floor open Sat 10am ~ 7pm �������������������������������������� Sun 11am ~ 6pm Location:�������������� Victoria Conference Centre� (in the heart of the Downtown Victoria, adjacent to the Empress Hotel) Public Demo:�������� 11:30 am and 1:30 pm, Saturday, half hour duration ������������������������������������ 12:30 pm and 2:30 pm, Sunday,�� half hour duration 6.Falun Dafa Public Introduction at Vancouver Health Show Date:���������������� 10am ~ 7pm, Saturday, November 20, 1999� ������������������������� 11am ~ 6pm, Sunday,�� November 21, 1999 Location:��������� The Plaza of Nations, Vancouver� ������������������������ (Northeast corner off the Cambie Bridge, south of the BC Stadium) Public Demo:��� 11:30am and 1:30pm, Saturday, duration: half hour ������������������������� 12:30pm and 2:30pm, Sunday� , duration: half hour 7.Falun Dafa 9-day Seminar in SFU Location: WMX (West Mall Complex) 2533, SFU Burnaby Campus� Time: 7:00pm ~ 9:00pm, Sept.20th(Mon)~28th(Tue)� Contact: 2949482 Fanny, 4649634 June, 4698612 Sue 8.Falun Dafa Public Presentation in SFU� �Falun Dafa will set up one desk at SFU club days.� �Time: 10:00am~3:00pm� Sept. 13,14 and 15.� �There will be two exercise demo at 1:00pm~2:00pm on Sep. 14 and 15 .� �Everybody is welcome!

I figured I'd finish this off with the fact that that person "I" was, was created by societal programming and conditioning starting at about the age of two.

The "American Dream" that everyone (but no one really) has; that competitive, achievement, power syndrome that's "fed" us wherever we turn. You know.....if you're not doing this/that, don't have this/that, don't know this/that, etc. crap, then YOU don't measure up.

YOU measure up, simply by the fact you're HERE, and there's a PURPOSE for your existence.

Unless a person is functioning from their "original condition" with the added dimension of utilizing the talents and abilities they've acquired, it's pretty hard to maintain that "place" within.

Although the "self-ish" factor of having our needs (Maslow) met does apply, the art of giving, without giving, is what I've found most beneficial as far as the "world" is concerned.

No matter what the sphere of influence may be (children, other family members, church, etc.) I'm sure we all have some one (or bunches of "someone's") that we interact with that we KNOW if they'd just do a certain thing, they'd be OK.

We KNOW that on the other SIDE of the action they'll find what their looking for.

As "pointers" ourselves, that's all we can do, and leave the results (outcome) to "God".

As I've learned, people are going to do what their going to do. I do get tired of thinking (not saying it) "I told you so" though.

Namaste'

Musta said too much or something. Don't know where that stuff following Namaste' came from.

Thanks Geoff. After my "experience" one of the things "I" realized was that I didn't know a damn thing about "LOVE".

In fact I didn't "know" what had happened. It was just a great place to BE". (Thank "God" for my 92 year old Grandmother and her guru----Ram Dass).

The next two years was spent "disciplining" myself by working (doing) the Program of AA, and doing the 12 Steps. These "Steps" took me "within" to a set of opinions, preconceived ideas/concepts about the world, who I thought I was, and my relation to that world, etc.

The "experience" was being returned to my original condition of "no-mindedness"----"nothingness"----no THINKING.

So here I am, in this great "place" within, writing about this "character", much like a character in a play or novel. I could "see" this person in my minds eye (it was "me" because I'd lived it) and what a mess "he" was.

Two months after the experience I was handed a position in the world that I'd sought all my life (to no avail).

Power, money, prestige, all the accouterments of Corporate life. All the "things" I'd thought would make me "OK" in society.

That's when the REAL work on my-self began.

That "character" that still existed in my memory bank had to go, but "he" sure as hell fought to stay in control.

It was the daily discipline of going to an AA meeting, and afterwards following Ram Dass's guidance (books, tapes, breath meditation) that I was able to maintain that "peace that passes all understanding".

There was another book that was VERY helpful..."Prayer Can Change Your Life" by Parker/St. John. (Guideposts)

Don't let the title fool you (turn you off). It's about a course of study (also a "blind" experiment) that was conducted at the University of California at Redlands by two psychologists that statistically and scientifically proved the power of prayer.

The main "feature" for me was the four methods of "entering the circle of Love".

Which finally brings me to the purpose of this post.

As all spiritual teachers are pointing out, this "LOVE" is within. As Twyman also points out, this "UNCONDITIONAL LOVE" is within.

The ONLY thing that separates us from that state of "Consciousness" are "thoughts" contained in our memory bank (subconscious).

"We" are DISPENSERS of that Love, and from an UNCONDITIONAL "place" within, there is no ATTACHMENT to the outcome of where "we" direct that "LOVE".

Sometime back I was trying to find a "word" to describe that "place" when one is operating from it, and the psychology label I could come up with was "sociopath", but that doesn't fit because you truly do have compassion (Love) for others, other than your-self. The only one that fits would be "impersonal" I guess. Anyone else have another one?

From that "place"........action/inaction doesn't really apply because as I said, there is no "attachment" to the outcome. It's Ghandi saying "it's not important what you do, but it's very important that you do it".

Or Ram Dass saying "you huff, and puff, and make believe it makes a difference............when you KNOW that it doesn't". (In the "WHOLE" scheme of things).

Sorry for the length.

Namaste' two psychologists were "stored" in my memory bank (subconscious) At the same time, I was following

Thanks Geoff. Beautiful.

I was going to say, love isn't something we "do", but James twyman expressed it perfectly.

Chris, thanks for sharing your rambling thoughts. :) I just found a site you might be interested in. It contains the opening paragraphs from The Fabric of Reality. Enjoy. Keep on rambling. Oh yes, the link is here - I almost frogot.

On the recent theme of the nature of love, I thought I might share this excerpt from Emissary of Light. It's rather a long excerpt, so I'll set the scene for why I'm posting it. I read this book about a year ago and it was the most effortless reading experience I have had. It was as if my mind (and soul) had 'merged' with that of the writer, James Twyman, as he recounted his extraordinary experiences with the Emissaries. Most ofthe time I was not aware that I was actually 'reading'. I would read 40 or 50 pages in what seemed like 5 or 10 minutes.

I had goosebumps reading this section of the book and a phenomenal 'rush' of euphoria swept over me as I thought, "Hey! That's it!" I'd never heard love, especially 'unconditional love' described so wonderfully. It opened my eyes and my soul. I read this book at a point where I was very open and receptive and I read it in little over a day. So, I can't guarantee anyone else will have the same reaction to this passage - there are no guarantees in this life. :)

Here's the excerpt from Emissary of Light by James Twyman

"The final lesson is about the true meaning of love. I have said before that fear is the self-imposed block to the awareness of love's presence. When fear is released, love is revealed. And yet the true experience of love is beyond anything you can now imagine. It lies past all the images and symbols you have made to obscure love's call. And yet it is closer than you know, closer than your breath or even the silent whisper of love's longing for itself. And what is the secret that love has whispered into your half-closed ear, the distant echo that has haunted you so? You are the very essence of Love. This very moment, just as you are, in spite of all the preconceived ideas you have of yourself, love claims you and accepts you."

"You have forgotten who you are because in your fear of losing love you have witheld that which is your foundation. Love by its very nature is a gift that is freely given. And yet this gift is know only as it is given again. Only when love is breathed from one heart to another is it fully experienced. When love is witheld it is forgotten, and because you and love were born together, you are forgotten with her. She lies hidden within you beside the still forgotten memory of your truest Self. Though asleep and dreaming, she awaits the dawn when her name is called and she is again brought back to life. And the awakening of love is your awakening as well, so intimately linked, all from giving freely that which you are: the full awareness of love's presence. But this awakening process requires that you give up all the ways you have tried to limit and contain her."

"True, or unconditional, love is unaware of the strange demands you impose on your relationships. Love is the same for all. Your attempts to reserve love for specific relationships and then withold it from others is the very thing that has blocked your vision of love's presence. Give as love gives - just as the sun that gives its light to all who ask, or the sparrow that sings not for the one who listens, but for the song itself. When you give love, love is your reward. When you judge some people as worthy of your giving and other people as undeserving, then it is you who is undeserving; not because you have been judged by love but because you have forgtotten love's law."

"You, in your essence are the foundation of unconditional love. The water you give refreshes the whole universe, for you are not separate from one part of the universe but are intimately linked to all. Let your gift be free, then. Let it flow from you and wash over all those you see, all those who cross your path. Do not think that you cannot still have relationships that are more involved than others. Involvement has nothing to do with love. There will always be those in your life with whom you share the deeper pulse of your thoughts and those whom you do not. But the love you give is the same for each of them. It is but the recognition of the very same life of which you are continually reborn."

"Love is a knowing, a pure understanding. It knows that all things are whole, regardless of their appearance or delusion, and it gives itself wholly, without judgement, without recognizing the difference between this relationship or that. It understands that there is only one real relationship and it is the one we all share, the Self that is beyond the thought or the idea of Love, the holy encounter of life with life. The secret of unconditional love is that we are all the same, holy beyond imagination. This is what the release of fear reveals. This is what you are all looking for. And this is what you will find when you open your heart to every element of creation."

We sat there for a very long time without saying a word. The silence was overwhelming. I looked up at Teacher and thought I noticed a change. His face began to glow, I was sure of it. The Light radiated from him and all around him. Then it extended to include all of us. We were engulfed in the Light. I cannot describe what this is like because it is beyond anything the world can understand. Several of the women and attendants stood up from their chairs. One of them started jumping up in the air and another began laughing out loud. Soon we were all laughing and dancing, moving with the energy and sharing the Light. I could no longer tell the difference between myself and the others. In that instant I understood everything. I was teacher. I was the Light. I swam in the ocean of sameness and knew I would never leave again.

You can read some further excerpts by clicking here

Salaam & Peace - Please could you pass this message to Dr. Chopra. I first heard/ saw you on a TV programme discussing your ideas whilst I was on exchange in Canada in 1995. I liked what you had to say. Then in the summer of 1999 I found a copy of your book - 7 Spiritual Laws to success - in an old book whilst I was on holiday in Pakistan. I read the book cover to cover in one night. I was blown away but I did not put your ideas into practice. Then I returned to England where i Live and in October 1999 I had a vivid dream and I SAW YOU SMILING AT ME. What this means I have no idea but any insight from you would be welcome. Last week I picked up your book again and i began to Read and what struck me this time was that I knew all this before, appart from the initial read in 1999. The laws that you expound are also mentioned in the Quran in other guises. The more I read, i understand that all religions / belief systems have a common thread. I feel that the challenge for this new millenium is not decoding DNA but getting mind , body and soul to work in harmony / tandem at the personal molecular level and eventually at the macro/ governmental level. As a Muslim your book taught me to appreciate & love Islam even more because the fruition of the 7 laws (ultimately with DHARMA) you expound are are available to all regardless of religion in a potentially short period of time as long as the wisdom of the Quran & Sunnah are practiced 25 hours aday / 8 days a week. I FEEL PROUD THAT I HAVE A HINDU / VEDANTA TEACHER IN YOU. THANK YOU. GOD BLESS & PLEASE REMEMBER ME IN YOUR MEDITATIONS ! Faisal Sheikh.

"have" eyes to see. Sorry

Pegasus........."those that eyes to see, and ears to hear"........

Great question.............more later.

Namaste'

Some of us disagree on action amd inaction. I do believe in the power of prayer and of silence and meditation. But what is it that we are expecting to happen when we pray for a solution to earthly problems? Will the relief come through every enlightened person in the universe taking action to end the problem? Or do we expect manna to fall from heaven and lush valleys to grow where there is desert? How do we know who is responsible for taking action and who is not?

Just trying to reconcile the differing opinions...

Arundhati, have you tried traditional Western medicine? Even if you have already seen a specialist, it wouldn't hurt to get a second or third opinion. Also, there are people who specialize in pain management. I hope that you are soon returned to a state of perfect health.

D2, sounds like you have found the Garden of Eden. Be sure to try one of those apples. ;-)

A brief return to my old soapbox:

The psychiatry jokes are just that. I can laugh with you but since a "the silent eyes" of others may be reading here, I wanted to add a word.

There are times when psychiatry and a good psychiatrist are needed. There is no shame in that or in taking the medications that relieve the pain. My psychiatrist and the medications that he recommended literally saved my life.

With that said, Geoff, I agree with you about the label of schizophrenia being used too much. Most of the saints would have been diagnosed. That's why it is important that people choose their doctors carefully.

Have a good one, everybody!

.........chuckling.......

Hello all,

Geoff, thanx for the psychiatry quotes, Szasz, and the New Paradigm. I'll read your excerpts with interest.

See Geoff, your story has really touched many chords and it's creating a fellowship. Thanks to you.

Hadi,

thank you for your thoughtful analysis. Reading between the lines, I cannot escape the conclusion that you are an astute reader with insight.

So many psychiatry jokes. I can't stop laughing!

Namaste

"When I have a toothache, I discover that not having a toothache is a wonderful thing."

~Thich Nhat Hanh.

Enjoying the discussion. Men around a camp fire.

Denis, congrats to the in-laws. That name just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

Geoff: "Trance-end" - nice one.

Jeremy Wiljan Groot Enzerink arrived here in earth school at 11:38 this morning weighing a large almost 10 US pounds, (4,300 grams for the metric world). I was in Amsterdam and heard the scream - ouuuch ! Born at home to my wife's sister. All are doing well.

Harvested three of the sweetest and ripest pears from the tree, next to the overloaded and bursting walnut, apple and plum trees. The grapes on the windowsill are looking vintage in nature, corn is amazing and the first of the homemade wine is availible for uncorking in October. Life on the farm is good !

Thanks Peggy. Not much else one can say.

Geoff, a theory on how we got those "bothersome egos". We got them when parts of us separated from ourselves and we disowned them. Robert Bligh (or is it Bly) the poet, said in an interview that when we are younger, we will do anything in which we are perceived as cool or groovy by a broad mass of people. It is during that time period of youth we dis-own the "slow" parts of ourselves. Some of us then spend a lifetime building an ego to keep those slow parts buried.

It also partly explains why kids can be so cruel to special needs or "different" kids, because in them we see reminders of the parts of our own being we choose not to own. As we grow older some of us begin to re-assimilate those slow parts of oursleves into ourselves and this may be why we appear to "mellow" with age. We simply let those slow parts of ourselves back in. During the so-called "death of the ego", I think we just sort of learn to relax a bit and bring those parts back in...

Hey to, right on about the darkest nights. No desire to debate with Hadi on interpretation. Just know from experience that until one sees darkness, light is also difficult to see. Thanks man.

In "A Course in Miracles" it talks about the ordinary human experience as being like a dream. Everything we experience is illusion (maya), and the secret to enlightenment isn't to fix the "dream", but to wake up from the "dream". There is nothing we can do in the dream to do this, as everything we do only reinforces the "reality" of the dream. Only by quieting the "dreamer", or by some flash of "insight" from beyond the dream can we become aware of the "unreality" of all "this".

My perspective of this (assuming it is true) is that actually waking from the "dream" for more than fleeting moments is next to impossible for most people, but becoming aware that it IS a dream is very possible. Once we are aware that all of "this" is just a "dream", our reactions and interactions within the "dream" change subtly. Just like a regular dream, once we are aware that it is "just a dream" the experience of the events in the dream changes. We still may play along with our roll in the dream, but all along the perspective is one of an actor in a play. Even though we may not be able to change the script of the dream, we can still enjoy the experience of the dream from a "safe" or "detached" perspective.

Just some rambling thoughts sparked by Terrys and Geoffs posts. I thought I would share. Enjoy!

Hi, i'm 19 yrs old and seem to have a problem which is incurable.Doctors diagnose it as writer's cramp but none of them are too sure themselves.My problem started manifesting itself two years ago.It was mild at first, creating a mild difficulty in writing.Withing two years the problem aggravated so much that presently i can hardly write a page at one go.I also can't type or perform certain specific activities like changing channels on TV, playing golf, billiards, tennis etc.I have undergone all sorts of treatments like allopathy, homeopathy, ayurvedic, tibetan as well as reiki but without any result. I experience excrutiating pain in my hand, shoulders and back while writing as well as at other times. I am desperately seeking a solution to this. Eagerly awaiting your response. Thanking you in advance, ARundhati.

My damn "ego" took me to where it did, and for lack of a greater expression, the "Grace of God" "woke" me up.

My teacher has a saying:

"Once your "awake", you can't go back to sleep.
You can try, but...........(laughter)".

There just isn't anyway to go back to that "ignorance is bliss" state. (L)

BTW Geoff, "I" think the "darker" the night of the soul.............the "brighter" (greater) the "light".

Very happy for you ("Your" story). Thanks for sharing it.

"I" bow...........

In fact, I've been running some scenarios thru my mind that would tell about what would be necessary for a person on this level (physical form) to even come close, and I "pictured" a person (monk/nun?) in a cave or monastery, and meditating all their "waking" moments.

Now.......... contrast that scenario with the life you lead at this moment. Could (would) you do it?

"I" think that the best we can do in our society (world?) is reach a point of balance between the "inner" and "outer" world.

That means coming into understanding (peace) with our "given" Karma as well as our created Karma.

"Created" Karma meaning what we attempted to have based on "worldly" programming/conditioning.

When that "place" of equanamity is reached (Aum), because we're still "here" "I" think that all there is to "do" is pass on what we've learned.

Sorta like "Buddha" did ya know. That's a decision he made after his enlightenment, as there just wasn't anything else to do.

Namaste'

Not to worry Geoff------reference "when/if we're all fully enLIGHTened".

"He who sees ("knows") the action
that is in inaction

and the inaction that is in action
is wise in-deed."

........................Bhagavad Gita

"Nobody" is doing anything, at "One" level.

Neurotics build castles in the sky.
Psychotics live in them.
And Psychiatrists collect the rent.

A psychology professor in college told me that. Have a great Friday everyone!

Isn't it the Talmud that says something along the lines that IT IS NOT WHAT WE SAY OR INTEND, BUT WHAT WE DO?!
What am I being, if I just be - but not realize that "being"?!
Isn't it about our deeds - rather than our words?!

Geoff, you have probably heard this joke.

What's the difference between God and a psychiatrist?

God doesn't think he is a psychiatrist.

Nor is he a shill/hooker for the pharmaceutical industry.

Namaste'

Had a funny old day. All manner of thoughts and questions strolling through my consciousness. For instance -

* If we are all "One" then who are we really loving? Ourselves? Isn't that a bit narcissistic? :)

* If we all had precisely the same depth and clarity of understanding, we'd have nothing to talk about. Thank God for diversity. :)

* How did we get these awfully bothersome egos in the first place? Not to mention all our fears and insecurities and obstacles to "transcend"?

* That word "transcend" - sounds a lot like "trance end"

* What will we all talk about if/when we're all fully enLIGHTened?

Do feel free to answer in any way you see fit.

Phoenix, I have just started reading Cave In The Snow in earnest (as opposed to opening it at 'random'). I can see why you posted such rave reviews! I thought I knew a bit about the history and practices of Tibetan Buddhism but Tenzin Palmo brings it to life in a way which is only possible when you've "been there and done that".

It's a phenomenal book on many different levels. and I'm only half way through it. Truth is indeed far stranger than fiction. One insight I did get is that we misuse the word "reincarnation". The way the Tibetans use it there is a vast difference between 'rebirth' and 'eincarnation'. Rebirth is commonplace but true reincarnation or tulku is when the stream of consciousness continues from one lifetime till the next in such a way that a person can be firmly identified as the latest incarnation of the previous lama or guru or teacher. I might not have explained that terribly well. See what happens when you use your own words. :) May post more next time.

A better question might be 'What am I being here?' or even 'Am I really being here?'. :)

Ravi, I've been transcribing some stuff from the latest issue of New Paradigm which you might care to read. This is an Australian publication that focuses on mental health issues. The writing in this edition was quite onederful. It even included a portion of one of my poems. A lot of the writing was about spirituality and 'mental illness'. I too believe many 'schizophrenics' are misdiagnosed. There's a joke that if you ask ten psychiatrists for a definition of schizophrenia, you'll get eleven different answers. :)

I also like the words of Thomas Szasz, who said "If you talk to God that's praying. If God talks to you then you have schizophrenia." Many cultures view the situation very differently and these views are well articulated in the link. The Buddhist perspective is particularly interesting. According to their view, most of us are 'mentally ill'. :)

Oh, yes, the link to New Paradigm - click hear

I would like to thank Dr. Chopra for introducing me to the Bhagavid Gita--it has changed my life.

What am I doing here?
What is spiritualism?
Vanity or Humanity?
Building an "ego" or transcending one's "self"?
I want to know: what am I doing here? I want to know where I am going.
Actually, does it really matter?
I guess it does for those who seek.
What is "seeking"?
Escapism or a determintation to find God?
Ah, what am I doing here?
Anyone has a good answer??!

And the "beat" goes on..........and on, ...............and on...........

Love 'IT'!

Geoff, excuse me for borrowing your tools. A sledgehammer was not available.

{{{Peggy}}}

control

Ravi: Did I hit a nerve? glad to see your ego is still intact, although I never doubted that...
Although you couldn't relate (while others clearly did), you did seem to echo some of what I said, following on from your statement

"Love is 'a state of giving of self to the other with utter humility without expecting even a 'thankyou' in return"

I'm sorry if I "gave" too much and, I didn't expect a thank you from you. I'll try to measure you by "one liners" in future if that is the depth you prefer. Although, Geoff's wonderful post didn't elicit the same "re-action" for its length. Is that a double standard?

Your words:

"But you do wander about painting wordy pictures. Sorry, I didn't relate to your 'short' descriptions."

This is your lesson in humility? Did you know that in the dictionary the word "humility" is next to the word "humiliate"?

And since Ego is always an exception to its own "rules" we will make an exception of your "rules" on brevity when it comes to your own verbose back-to-back posts. ;)

Coolfont would have appreciated the irony in that.

Duality abounds, Ravi. You said:

"I wanted to initiate an animated discussion where people express their own inner reality in their own way with their own 'words'."

Which actually, I did.

And your following suggestion:

"How about sticking with one-liners in one's own language and feeling."

A bit of a contradiction there, don't you think? Perhaps you want us to express ourselves in your words, with your inner reality of "conjugated kundalinis"? I'm sure everyone could relate to that.

"Can we stay 'focussed' here?"

No comment, Ravi. As for the "Tyranny of words", maybe you didn't scrutinise your own words carefully enough. When you scrutinise yourself the Tyrant will eventuallly be revealed. To the Mystic it is known as the "Saboteur Archetype".

Let me know when you can"relate" to US, instead of your self serving need to sell your Three Verbs of Being and The Lattitude Syndrome. A site I am sure we have all visited by now and I think you have failed to interpret the response to those visits.

I look forward to your next lesson. Keep up the "hard-sell".

Ravi, some of us have grown rather fond of Hadi's posts. His ideas are too profound for sound "bytes" which seem to have all the marrow sucked out of them. The description that he has given is the essence of the spiritual experience and I knew immediately upon reading it that that was missing in my own glib definition.

I don't know that I know what love is. But I know what it is NOT -- from my own experiences. It is not control.

Great posts re thoughts, opinions and 'words' in response to my query re 'love'.

Hadi, no I'm not seeking material for my next book. But you do wander about painting wordy pictures. Sorry, I didn't relate to your 'short' descriptions.

Can we stay 'focussed' here?

I wanted to initiate an animated discussion where people express their own inner reality in their own way with their own 'words'.

How about sticking with one-liners in one's own language and feeling.

e.g. Love is 'a state of giving of self to the other with utter humility without expecting even a 'thankyou' in return

Peggy, if you think of love as a dispassionate and detached 'state of being' it does take on qualities of boundlessness, freedom and permanence because it's not attached to an object, animate or otherwise.

I have tried to paint that picture in The Three Verbs of Being through the rare phenomenon of 'conjugated Kundalinis'.

I think we all are conditioned to thinking of 'love' as a feeling for an object or a person. This, IMHO is rather narrow in a philosophical sense. Some would label it 'possessiveness'.

Should there be reverence and humility in 'love'?

My hat's off to Geoff for clearly linking the existence of the 'state of love' with one's spiritual space. If one's been in a valley, can a hill be far?

Now that is rising above the "tyranny of words."
Let's say: Om om om om om om om in a seven-segmented outbreath.

Geoff,

See, when you expressed your own inner reality, what a thing of beauty you created. I had the pleasure and duty to work in a psychiatric research institute for 25 years. I attended many 'Friends of Schizophrenia' meetings where many stories like yours were told.
I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT MOST SCHIZOPHRENICS ARE MISDIAGNOZED.

In my humble opinion, most bring residuals of unresolved Kundalini from a previous organic experience. I have worked with many.

I have a specific meditation technique for you. The way you've described your present status in the forum post, it seems you've removed most of your impediments to reveal the hidden gem inside.

I truly admire your ability to think and express your reality clearly.
My hope is that forum readers will understand what you've so candidly bared.

May Om's grace uplift you to higher plateaus! Namaste

Hello friends,

I think you might enjoy this.

Just ignore the 'marketting hype' at the end.

That's not His Holiness Dalai Lama's doing.
This is what the Dalai Lama had to say on the millennium. All it takes is a few seconds to read and think over. Do not keep this message. The mantra must leave your hands within 96 hours. You will get a very pleasant surprise. This is true even if you are not superstitious.

I N S T R U C T I O N S     F O R   L I F E

1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.

2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

3. Follow the three R's: Respect for self Respect for others and Responsibility for all your actions.

4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them

6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.

7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.

8. Spend some time alone every day.

9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.

10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

11. Live a good, honourable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.

12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life.

13. In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current situation. Don't bring up the past.

14. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.

15. Be gentle with the earth.

16. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.

17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for each other exceeds your need for each other.

18. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

FORWARD THIS MANTRA E-MAIL TO AT LEAST 5 PEOPLE AND YOUR LIFE WILL IMPROVE.

0-4 people: Your life will improve slightly.

5-9 people: Your life will improve to your liking.

9-14 people: You will have at least 5 surprises in the next 3 weeks.

15 people and above: Your life will improve drastically and everything you ever dreamed of will begin to take shape.

Do not keep this message. The mantra must leave your hands within 96 hours. You will get a very pleasant surprise
We are surrounded by immense beauty! And we ignore it all the time! Namaste

Awesome Geoff, totally awesome!

Ravi,

Well, you wanted "my own words", so here goes ... I scribbled these notes down at 6 AM, so apologies if they lack cohesion or clarity or resonance, but they are all mine. :)

Speaking personally, the past 18 months has been revelatory. I am now in a place I simply would never have imagined being in. I feel as if I have been woken from a bad dream. I am starting to realise that I spent most of my adult life in a very dark place. Looking back on it, it is a miracle I actually survived to tell the tale. People talk about the "long, dark night of the soul". Well, mine lasted 17 years or more - though it seemed a Hell of a lot longer, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, something has awakened in me that I quite frankly doubted was in me. To be honest, for much of my life I have doubted whether love is in fact real. Several times, I convinced myself that it was some bizarre, mutual delusion that people shared (and which I seemed unable to share). Looking around me at those who claimed to 'be in love', it never seemed to last too long or work out very well. I even came to doubt my own capacity to participate in this kind of delusional activity. Not only did love come to seem very unreal to me, the entire world and reality itself took on an unreal quality. I was diagnosed as having "schizophrenia", which is the psychiatrist's way of saying, 'we don't really know what's wrong but we'll give it a label so it looks like we do.'

So, what has awakened in me? For want of a better word, call it "love". A realisation that no matter what the superficial differences that exist in behaviour, appearance, personality, social 'status' etc, we all share the same "essence" or "spirit". I now firmly believe that without some spiritual dimension to your life, "real love" is virtually impossible. As long as people are in the palce that I was, a place of judgement and blame; a place of "shoulds" and "shoudn'ts"; a place of fear and worry; a place of materialism and skepticism; a place of resentment, reluctance and bitterness ... then a genuine experience of love is not going to happen. How I left that place and arrived at this place is still a profound mystery to me. I'm incredibly grateful it happened but it does puzzle me, as do many aspects of the human experience.

{BTW, I quoted Tenzin Palmo's words because I feel they resonate with clarity in saying that what most people call "love" is in fact "attachment" and that is why it is so fragile and volatile and rarely works out. Even if we did call it "love", it is generally highly conditional on two fronts. Firstly, along the lines of 'I'll love you as long as you do X, Y & Z for me'. Secondly, along the lines of only those people who are 'my type' or who meet certain criteria will be considered 'worthy' of my love. The rest I can safely ignore or dismiss.}

If we define "real love" as love which is experienced and given equally to everyone we encounter without hesitation or condition or reservation ... then I'd say it is safe to say there are not many among us who have (yet) manifested such a love. I now have some sense of what such a love is like and that is something I never thought I'd say. I still have a way to go before I manifest it as I can imagine it but I feel I'm on my way. I now believe that the potential for unconditional love exists in each of us. The big question is how to awaken it in more and more people. That is what Deepak and many others are writing about and working towards. The big revelation for me is that if I can go from where I was to where I now am, then nobody is beyond help no matter what you might first think. Because I was as far away from the notion of "unconditional love" as any human being could ever be.

Phew ... now I need a nap ... :)

(sometime later)

Sorry about that. Didn't mean to dampen the beautiful "stuff" being shared.

Ironically, that 120,000 fits the number of high school drop-outs last year (in New York State).

Namaste'

I was wondering what is "wrong" with this "Picture":

Foster parents are needed for 120,000 children, right now, today.

360,000 will be needed by 2002.

Thanks.

Namaste'

dear Marti - i second Peggy's words to you! and will pray for God's Grace to you and your family....

Ha! Geoff - every post i write, i always pray, that hopefully, someone can understand! i always feel honored to be in the company of the great intelect that is exhibted here!

Marti, you've come to a good place with your request. Healing has come from the thoughts and prayers and focus of forum participants many, many times. Please let us know about Gretchen's progress. And yours and Willie's too.

Hadi, you leave me wishing that I had said what you said in your last two posts. Although your comment about embracing was directed to Denis, I must admit that I have used recognize, acknowledge, accept and embrace interchangeably. My mistake!

Spot on. "Love is a verb". All this time we spend thinking about it or explaining it or talking about it ... how much time do we spend doing it ...

I would invite prayers for my daughter, Gretchen Self, who is 29 years old and has had a double bypass on June 18th of 1999 and now how going in for diagnostic angiogram for problems with her heart...And prayers for Dr. Hollowell, who will guide her through this angiogram and will interpret and correct whatever problems he sees...your prayers are needed and will be deeply appreciated...pray also for her brother and my son, Willie, whose pain is so deep...

Actually, "Who made God?" is an intereesting question. I was talking with my eight-year-old niece on the weekend and she asked "Where did the first people come from?" I said it all depends on whether you believe in a God or in evolution. She instantly asked "Well, if God exists, who made God?" I said he made himself, which was an answer she hadn't expected and it seemed to end the conversation. :) So, if you want a tricky question to ponder, try answering that in a way an 8 year old can understand ... :)

That was supposed to read as "vacant looks". :)

Well, Ravi, since we are all interconnected, then in a very real sense Tenzin's thoughts are my thoughts. :)

There is a reason some words survive 20 or 25 centuries whereas this morning's chatter over a cup-of-tea is forgotten almost as soon as they are said. In the course of a lifetime we think and say and hear and read literally billions of words. Most of them lack any real clarity or depth or insight or coherence or impact. That's why they are instantly forgettable whereas some words you hear or think or say or read become etched into your consciousness.

When you have those "Aha! That's it!" moments, then you have read or said or heard or thought something which is a universal truth. Or at least something which has taken you a little step closer to it, since I don't believe the ultimate truth can be fully expressed using a vehicle as limited as human conceptual language.

I'm sure if you went up to most people in the street and asked "What is love?" you'd get some pretty vacnat looks and most would indeed be stumped for words. Part of us knows what it is but when we try to put it into words, many of us would lack the inspiration to say anything terribly memorable. But thanks for asking. It is THE essential question of our existence. Apart from "Who am I?" ... or "Who made God?" ...

hi Ravi - no time to read but for me love is the pure energy field where no fear exists. will try to read a little later, dear One, and thank you for asking your wonderful question. Namast�

Denis: I tend to agree with you about the shadow. My concern is that there is too much emphasis from some quarters of Spiritual thinking on "embracing" one's shadow rather than recognising and acknowledging it for what it is. I think this particular emphasis of embracing our negativity is a New Age phenomenon, while the process of recognition, detached as it is, tends to be much more effective for understanding and disarming our shadow. IMO.

overnmental Awards and Recognition of Falun Dafa from China and North America Since its public introduction in May 1992, Falun Dafa has attracted over 100 million practitioners worldwide in just seven years. Falun Dafa cultivation emphasizes that one should conduct oneself according to the principle of "Truth-Compassion-Tolerance". Regardless of gender and age, regardless of nationality and race, every practitioner who persistently cultivates his/her heart and practices the exercises has benefited tremendously. Constant diligent cultivation has brought significant changes to many practitioners in both physical conditions and moral values. At the same time, Falun Dafa is gaining worldwide understanding and appreciation, especially in Asia, Australia, Europe, and North America. Listed below are some awards issued by some local governments in China,Canada and US in recognition of the extraordinary contribution made by Master Li Hong Zhi and Falun Dafa to people's mental and physical health. Just as Master Li Hong Zhi said in Chicago this June, "a practitioner takes worldly fame lightly. The award has no special meaning to myself; but to Falun Dafa, the meaning of the award is profound. It represents the understanding and recognition of Falun Dafa by human beings and society." He hopes that more kindhearted people will join the path of cultivating Falun Gong. July 15, 2000 Proclamation from the City of Deerfield Beach, Florida May 17, 2000 Congratulations from U.S. Congressman in Pennsylvania May 17, 2000 Proclamation from the House of Representatives of Pennsylvania May 13, 2000 Proclamation of World Falun Dafa Day, City of League City, Texas May 4, 2000 A Congratulation Letter from the City of Houston, Texas (5/10/00) January 9, 2000 "Falun Dafa Week" in Boone County, Missouri December 26, 1999 "Falun Dafa Week" in Columbia, Missouri November 29, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" and "Falun Dafa Days (Week)" in Seattle, Washington (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) November 20, 1999 Official recognition by the Mayor of San Antonio, Texas October 25, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" and "Falun Dafa Week" in Kearny, New Jersey October 16, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Birmingham, Alabama October 9, 1999 "Falun Dafa Day" in Middlesex County, New Jersey October 9, 1999 "Master Li Hongzhi Day" in the City of Edison, New Jersey September 18, 1999 "Falun Dafa Day" in the City of Saint Louis, Missouri September 9, 1999 More Commendation for Falun Dafa from New Jersey September 3, 1999 City of Atlanta awards Master Li "Honorary Citizen" August 16, 1999 Proclamation of "Falun Dafa Day" in Philadelphia by Mayor Edward G. Rendell August 14, 1999 "Honorary Citizenship" awarded by Maryland State Governor Parris N. Glendening (text and image) (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) August 13, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Baltimore, Maryland (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) August 9-13, 1999 Washington D.C.'s Falun Dafa Week proclaimed by Mayor Anthony A. Williams (text and image) August 8, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Jersey City, New Jersey, text file July 23, 1999 Commendation letter from Governor Gray Davis of California (text and image) July 19, 1999 Mayor Ron Gouzales of San Jose City, California welcomed Master Li (text and image) June 25, 1999 Illinois awarded Master Li Hongzhi -Appraisal letter from Illinois governor George H. Ryan -Chicago Master Li Hongzhi Day -Illinois Treasurer's Award for Outstanding Service May 22, 1999 Welcome letter from Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, Canada Welcome letter from Mayor Mel Lastman of Toronto, Canada October 12, 1996 Houston, Texas Named Master Li: "Honorary Citizen" and "Goodwill Ambassador" Proclaimed "Li Hongzhi Day" December, 1993 1993 Oriental Health Expo, Beijing, China: Master Li was honored with "The Award for Advancing Boundary Science" and "Qigong Master most acclaimed by the masses" December 27, 1993 The Honor Certificate Conferred by A Foundation under the Ministry of Public Security of China September 21, 1993 A Report on the Newspaper Published by the Ministry of Public Security of China August 31, 1993 A Thank-You Letter from A Foundation under the Ministry of Public Security of China Find More Information on Falun Dafa Editors: [email protected] Web designers: [email protected] You are welcome to copy and distribute the materials as long as you do not modify the contents. Updated at Ma

Ravi: Are you looking for new material for your next book? Perhaps the answer you were looking for was "love is a verb"?

I have a friend, Sam, who has a history of short, unfulfilled relationships. One night Sam and I got to speaking of "love". Sam, you see, believes he does love, and has loved, and knows love. He "loves" shopping, he "loves" money, he "loves" cars, he "loves" women.

I said to Sam, that for me and the Mystic, these definitions were not "love". The love for one's child is essentially different from the love of "pizza", or at least it should be. The word love is used too broadly to include many relationships we have with our world and many attachments we have within those relationships. Even the dictionary will define love as "a great attachment to and affection for" or "a passionate desire, longing, and feeling".

For me these are ego definitions. They are "desire" and "passion" which are motivated by Ego needs to possess and are attached, transient and conditional. While both desire and passion have an element of love in them, they are not love itself. Certainly the desire that cannot distinguish between the love for a pickle and the love for a lover is not the love that Jesus or Shakespeare spoke of.

The Mystic puts a great emphasis on "unconditional" love, and on "detached" love. Here the Mystic seeks to redefine the traditional understanding of love; the tribal definition of the advertising agencies, the media and romantic novels is essentially a possessive love. The Mystic is speaking of love which is both "compassion" and "empathy". Yet, the tribal definition of compassion remains as "pity".

Krishnamurti tried very hard to emphasise that compassion is not "pity", which is to feel sorry for another and thereby make that person "wretched" and "lower". He defined compassion as "empathic love".

This essentially defines the "detached" love as being rich, caring, sensitive and much as was expressed in Geoff's post quoting Tenzin Palmo. It is not cold and indifferent, nor is it whimsical, shallow or trite.

We also have the definition that "love is God" or "God is love". This definition falls into the heart of the Mystic's understanding of love. For, at the scientific root of the Mystic's belief is the understanding that love is essentially an Energy. This Energy has been identified by Buddhists as a "resonance" - a vibration. It is this resonance we feel when we desire a thing or person, and different people feel it at different intensities. Arguably, some don't feel it at all.
This resonance, this energy, this is the "Life Force" energy of the universe. It has also be known as Cosmic Energy, Universal Energy, "Aum". It is a super-intelligent energy for anyone who has experienced it through the sixth chakra.
The life giving energy of the universe is therefore the life creating energy.
It is That which gave rise to you and me and the birds and the bees and the trees. As such, this then, the Creator of life which can be sensed by the living "energetic" organisms as "love" can be rightly defined as God.

This is where the distinctions, I hope, become a little clearer. When I feel true love for my cat, a dog, the birds and the trees, I am experiencing an "empathy" of life and compassion for that life form, which is precious, delicate and magnificent. When I feel love for a car, a hamburger(?), or other inanimate things, all I am doing is energising or vitalising the "life force" energy within to achieve a simulated pleasure of "love", which remains transient and ultimately empty. Like masturbation. This is like a projection, if you excuse the pun. This kind of expression of love is possessive, motivated by the need to possess and to control the "object" of desire. It is not real love. I think a person who believes that his love for a Kebab is the same as his love of a woman, a child, a brother, or his dog should seriously examine and question his or her own beliefs. Such a person has chosen this definition because of the Ego's essential "fear" of love. This fear may be based simply on ignorance, or more likely it is based on bad experiences. Negative associations. If, for example, as a child our experiences of those we loved, our parents perhaps, if those "relationships" left negative "impressions", our "tendency" would become to avoid them by repressing or suppressing love through "denial". In the same way, if we experience a great deal of rejection in our romantic relationships we may develop a tendency not to get close or involved with others. This is not detachment. It is fear.

These become "unconscious" factors in our personality which we do not recognise or identify. We have redefined our world and our understanding according to "ego fears".

In these situations it is difficult to see past our own delusion, but believe me, if you equate the love of a woman or a man with the love of material objects you could do worse than seek professional help. I am not saying this as a put down, and ego will want to read it that way, I am saying it with compassion. You need to get in touch with your Self.

To use the argument that "All is One" in order to justify such a delusional idea that our transient ego desires are the same as "love" is pure sophistry by a clever mind. Ego will find any way it can to justify it's own perceived perfection. The contention would have to follow that we should love a cow-pat as much as we love our burger or our spouse, since to differentiate would be "conditional" and would create separation. We could go on to say that killing millions is fine because there is no such thing as death. Such arguments are clearly nonsense in the evolutionary plateaux we find ourselves in. If, however, I was still an earth-worm, I could be wrong. The cow-pat may be more desirable. As Einstein said, "it's all relative". Or was that Sylvia?

Howdy everyone... -lease excuse the morse code, but my keyboard is sick and the key next to 'o' isn't working. I thank you all for the discussion on love. I have been trying to understand it all myself of late, and your -ersonal views have hel-ed me to take a different view on what im feeing at the moment. Infatuation is a definite -art of what my fiance and I feel, but I wonder sometimes how another side of me 'knows' it is also quite different to anything else I have felt before. For the first time in my life I do not feel afraid to communicate my TRUE feelings, good or bad. to someone. In fact some of those things I am most ashamed of, my fiance finds attractive in me. It is certainly something I have never ex-erienced before. Before entering into this relationshi-, I asked for this -artnershi- to be one based on truth. I s-ecifically asked for the kind of relationshi-I wanted to take -art in, the kind of communication I wanted to take -lace. It seems the more I communicate my true feelings, the less fear I now ex-erience, and the more I acce-t myself, for myself. It seems that throughout this -ost, I have written all about 'I'. I have just realised as I write this, that for the very first time in my life, 'I' have fully acknowledged 'myself' for what I am. Now the work that 'we', my fiance and I, are meant to undertake in this lifetime, can really begin. I know I have much to learn with res-ect to s-irituality, es-ecially as I read through this forum. And yes, I am scared to voice my o-inion and my -ersonal view in case it is "wrong". What I do know is this is the closest I have come to feeling what I -ersonally understand to be unconditional love, not only between my fiance and myself, but towards everyone I meet. Im sorry for being so long-winded!!......THANK YOU for listening..........MAZ

hi! just getting ready to head down to Ooltewah, tn, love the "love" discussion and yes, Peggy, i did feel kinship with those wonderful people. it was marvelous how much they accomplished and their natural surroundings is/was awesome. i loved the rocky creek beds!

Ravi we did hear of the bears and someone spotted one just ahead of us! they blocked the road with their vehicle and everyone was mad at them. guess they just got excited and ran off into the woods when they sighted the bear. personally, i wouldn't want to disturb them in anyway, heh!

ok, friends, i'm on the road again and will check in later if possible! love and Namast�!

Hi all, I'm constantly struggling with the issue of love myself. You know, the thoughts that I am complete in and of myself make sense to me when I am alone. But I can't explain why it is so much easier to be happy and grateful when there is love in your life. I mean, what about that school of thought that says we are all divine and we are only here to experience that which we could not experience if it weren't for the illusion of being separate. So, if we're here to experience love and oneness, how can we do that without making a true connection to other people? I understand that we can only fully love people when we don't need to love them, because then we can freely choose to love them. But perhaps being in love produces a state that is more conducive to experiencing oneness with others. And then, being in my twenties, I sometimes feel like humans are biologically built to pass the species on.....so it feels like the biological and spiritual designs for mankind are in direct opposition. Like one part of you strongly needs a partner, and another part is telling you that you are complete. So are biology and spirituality essentially incompatible? How is physical love different from spiritual love? And ultimately doesn't everyone deep down inside crave love, that they are waiting for someone else to give them? Well folks, forgive my ignorant ramblings and sweet dreams to you all.

Carol, I'm glad that you discovered Cades Cove! Did you feel a sense of kinship with the people who had lived there? It really struck a chord with me.

Tonight I watched a movie on TNT called NUREMBERG. It is excellent and much of the writing was unusually insightful.

The character of a young psychologist (who observed the men who were accused of war crimes) asked himself this question: What is evil? His answer was (paraphrased)that evil is the lack of empathy.

Any comments?

For me, love is impermanent because I have not reached a continuous state of enlightenment, I am not always merry and I am not always at peace. The last two are usually a choice that I make and have a definite correlation to my state of enlightenment (or lack of it). And, certainly, there is more to love than peace, merriment and light. That was an easy answer. As you know well, words fail.

What are your own feelings on love and non-judgment? What do you think keeps people from posting here if they want to? Do you think that more should post? Is there anything that we can or "should" do to increase active participation?

Hallo one and all,

Geoff, you have told me what the book you opened said and what Whitney said. What do you think, feel or percieve about 'love'?

Why does some one love an Olive Tree? What has the tree done to her/him?

D2, yes, you are so right. That's why people 'fall' in love. 'Fall' implies a lowering of one's status. Why don't we say that we rise in the glorious uplifting togetherness of 'love'?

I personally happen to think that the roots of 'love' are burried in 'giving'. For 'giving' and 'learning'(includes adapting) are the two basic processes at work in the universe. What does an astrophysicist think of that?

Carol, have a good trip and leave the bears alone!

Do lookin on:

The Three Verbs of Being
The Latitude Syndrome

Your descriptions of love seem to assign a property of permanence to it.

Should there be one?

Chris, thank you for your perceptive post.

If divinity is an integral part of one's being, then we are all united in it.

If this be true, then 'love' is permanent and unassailable. Is it?

See everybody writes about 'love', feels it lurking about and wants it to dawn upon them.

It's there, but its illusive. We keep on looking for an 'attached' state of 'love'.

Is there some such thing as 'pure love' or 'unattached love'?

I get the feeling that many people want to read and post on the forum.

Namaste

Phoenix, Just found a site you might be interested in. It displays Thangka paintings and mandalas. Click here. Enjoy.

I've enjoyed reading the replies to Ravi's question about what love is and what it isn't. By a curious turn of events, I happen to have for a short time in my possession a copy of Cave In The Snow. As usual, I opened it at "random" and this is what I read -

While being like an "empty house" may seem desirable to a meditator, to the average person, brought up on the notion that passion and emotional involvement is what gives life its colour and verve, such a state could seem vapid and remote. Was being an "empty house" the same as being a "shell" of a person - cold and unfeeling? And what is the difference between detachment and being cut off from your emotions anyway?

Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people.

'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.'

Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)

My moments of gratitude seem to be more constant these days... and added another one when I read the most recent posts. I, too, like Olive trees! Blessings to you all!

~Wednesday, July 12, 2000~

Q: Would it not be better to just leave things to Pure Potentiality rather than using the Law of Desire?

A: This is of course the ideal, to surrender to Spirit and accept whatever happens in our life as being exactly what is required at that time. However, if we are not at a point where we can be that accepting, then we use the law of Desire. Desires can be fulfilled, transmuted, or transcended but they can never be suppressed. The key to having desires is always to be detached from their outcome, this is like giving nature a hint. We express our desire but at the same time say, "If there's something better, please send that instead". So, in a way, by being detached, we are expressing our opinion but ultimately leaving it to Pure Potentiality.
www.chopra.com

thanks Richard and thank you, Peggy for the welcome to Tennessee. WOW! what a beautiful place. we spent the day at Cades Cove and this Floridian saw what she was missing living in the flatlands, heh!

anyway just a quick note to say Hi to everyOne from Tn and next, i am meeting a friend i've communicated online with for 5 years, Dove Voice (Mary Anne), for the first time. Ooltawah, i think, as i don't have my note here. she is living in a mountain retreat with a Tantric Master in residence so i am really looking forward to it.

Namast� friends!

Okay, time for everyone to get out for a long walk, sunshine, and fresh air. See what you see, hear what you hear, smell what there is...be nice to yourselves, each other, and therefore God.

Peace, friends of light

Namaste'

The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans and the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making it almost imposible to resist.

The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans but the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making almost imposible to resist.

The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans but the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making almost imposible to resist.

D2, I can't think of anyone that I had rather have birthday greetings from. Let there be peace between us. (Let's make it a gift to the kid who loves olive trees so much.) :-)

I'm not "there" in the sense of remaining in an enlightened state. I am much too earth-bound. But I am "there" in that there is no more dependence on what the future may bring most of the time.

I'm pleased to know that things are going well in your marriage. I had sensed that you are more at peace. Early in our marriage, Dave and I looked forward to the time when we would be like "old shoes" -- comfortable, familiar, dependable. It's okay to be scuffy but a little polish never hurts now and then. You have a very romantic spirit and that is part of the polish!

I tried to find the piece from the end of the movie "The Corn is Green" for you but with no success. I haven't given up though.

One thing that is good about our shadow-sides is that there are people who love us -- shadows and all! Learning to embrace our own shadows is quite a challenge. But that is where there is a lot of personal growth. I know that you already know all of this but it feels good to say it here.

I wish you peace, merriment and light...

Necesito informaci�n acerca de lugares donde pueda recuperarme,mi diagn�stico: �lcera esof�gica,hernia hiatal y colon irritable. Realizo tratamiento dependiendo de medicaci�n y contin�o sin superaci�n alguna.

Necesito informaci�n acerca de lugares donde pueda recuperarme,mi diagn�stico: �lcera esof�gica,hernia hiatal y colon irritable. Realizo tratamiento dependiendo de medicaci�n y contin�o sin superaci�n alguna.

I heard/was taught, "face the light and the shadows are always behind you".

Works for me.

Namaste' o buckaroos (Vaqueros) of the enlightenment trail.

I love "Olive Trees".

Prettig verjaardag (Happy birthday in Dutch) Pegs and don't choke on that piece of cake when you read this . . . ;-)

Are we ever really there ? If we are then we are either fully enlightened or dead. You are definitely not the latter and congratulations on reaching the former, or...

Just enjoy the ride, bumps and all. Peaks and valleys are everywhere and an integral part of the ride. Enjoy today's peak and be aware of and embrace the ride through the next valley.

That is what I meant to Hadi and Geoff about shadows.

Your question is a very important one. Do I love my wife or my projection of her ? Two years ago the answer would have been very different than what it is today.

Love changes and grows only when we learn to first love and accept ourselves for who we are and where we are on our path. When we love a projection, we are in a state called infatuation (one I know VERY well).

Infatuation is wonderful and dangerous and leads to all the states in your post. It is all powerful as infatuation leads us to do things for what we think is our endless love. It causes kings to abdicate thrones (Edward and Mrs. Simpson), crazy forum posters to move to Nashville for love (relax everyone, I'm talking about myself there), and in extreme cases death (Romeo and Juliet).

When infatuation has its grip, it is a powerful thing. It looks like and feels like love. We feel energized by each other's presence but it is a chemical reaction over which we have no control because inside of us we feel something is missing.

It can indeed lead to love, but with most things it takes time and knowledge that it is an infatuation and not love.

I know you hate quotes, but perhaps Whitney Houston said it best, "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all." Only when you are there can you love another and let them be who they are, rather than the projection of who you think they are.

Or, perhaps when we realize that everybody is just doing the best they can at the time, we realize that there is really only one of us in the room.

Sorry it got a bit longer than I intended... Cheers.

Geoff, by keeping one's face turned towards the light, they ignore their darkness and that is the worst thing that can happen. Ignoring the darkness is impossible, it only leads to lifetimes of running away from the dark.

Without darkness or shadows, one cannot see true light, only the reflected light of those around you.

Happy Birthday Peggy!

 

I marvel at the similarities of Deepak's doctrine & that of the Bible's.For example,Proverbs 23:7 says,"As a man thinketh in his heart,so is he."Implying that our life tends to flow in the direction of our most dominate thoughts.The doctrine of "affirmations" is also in the bible. Romans 10:17-Faith cometh by hearing & hearing...

Dear friends, I am overwhelmed by the generosity of your birthday gifts to me! It is great to hear from some old friends as well as those who have remained a constant in my life. (Kitty, the cake was delicious! Geoff, I loved the card and now I know how to post those cards here!)

Yesterday I turned fifty-seven. So far, it's the best year. ;-) It was the perfect birthday!

Carol, I like the synchronicity of the Deepak quotation and I whole-heartedly concur! I am at a point in my life where I am "there." Until the last year or so, I was saying to myself, "I will be happy when..." Now the fall of the first yellow leaf or a ten-year-old's giggle is cause for celebration. (Welcome to Tennessee, by the way!)

Thanks for celebrating with me!

Peace, merriment and light = love.

I am interested in obtaining information on Deepak's speaking engagements and on any workshops or seminars on his material.

Thanks for the link Geoff. I think reading all those links would give a lay person a pretty good grasp of the enigma of water (as science understands it).

Ravi, the experience of love in my view is the surrender of the ego so that we are able to experience the divinity of the Self projected on the beloved. This applies to loving hamburgers, cars, people, ideas, and soul mates. If you believe that divinity is in everything, then it is possible to love anything and everything. Ego rarely surrenders completely, so love manifests itself only on those �things� that can more easily slide past the ego�s defense of the idea of sepreation, like a parents love of their children or the love of our mates. That�s my 2 cents.

"Clear away the wreckage of the past" (yours and others), for a Present.

Dedpak's=Deepak that's what i get for trying to type in the dark.

just a line to tell you that i signed in this morning and found your birthday celebration and then checked out Dedpak's site and found the birthday question. it was a nice synchronicity for me.

~Monday, July 10, 2000 ~

Q: How do we experience pure consciousness?

A: As it's right here in everything, the question should be, "How do we miss it?". We miss it because our attention is always being distracted by our memories and desires, the past, the present and the future. Pure consciousness is in the present. When you spend time in the present moment you will find pure consciousness. Meditation is the best tool to help us do this but anytime you allow your attention to be with the witness of your experience instead of getting caught up in the experience itself, you will find pure consciousness.

www.chopra.com

~Tuesday, July 11, 2000 ~

Q: I would like your opinion whether birthdays should be celebrated or not.

A: We should celebrate every day as if it is our birthday.

www.chopra.com

Happy Birthday, Peggy! sorry i missed the party and i do "love" Kitty's cake! :)

i missed checking in cuz i'm traveling up to your lovely state to visit sis (Seymour, Tn)and taking the grandkids, too. wow! what a project! they were hauling things out for an hour that they "must" take, heh! anyway, i'll check in from my sis' house to read the great discussions and to find out if Ravi hears the answer he is looking for....

love to all and Namast�

Hadi, keep your face turned towards the light and you'll never see any shadows. :)

Ravi, the answer is that love is all of the above AND none of the above. Hope this helps. It's like the old expression, if you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer. :)

Happy Birthday Peggy

Click here for the full "card"

Hello to one and all,

Chris, Geoff, Hadi, Carol, thank you for the research on the anamolies in the properties and sub-atomic composition of water, the wonder liquid, the sustainer of lakes, rivers and the seas with so many life forms, here on earth and God knows, where else in space!

It's amazing how a seemingly simple thing can become so technical and difficult to understand when the scientific lingua is brought to bear on it. I think it sounds like some kind of elitism or knowledge/insight possessed by a lucky few - I don't mean in a pejorative sense. How is a common person to understand it? There must be another way to show that water has these unusual qualities, like, "so that forms of life swim and live . . ., in an experiential way, in a way it relates to an evolutionary plus, enabler, enhancer, nurturer of life like the eternal feminine that draws us on . . . .

Chris, the site you sent us to . . . mindboggling! Thanx.

I now realize I asked the wrong question in the first place!

In passing

I am also immensely puzzled by how people quote from books they have read, or authors whose wisdom has impressed them in some way.

Can we express our own original? ideas based on real experiences/realizations etc.? Because when one quotes, the 'words' become literal and devoid of the force of the personal feeling which makes them alive and potent.

Pardon my ignorance.

What is 'love'? Everyone quotes, writes and elaborates its virtues. Can someone explain the phenomenon to me?

Is it: 'I love a hamburger'.

Or is it: 'Sweetheart, I love you so much; let's go to bed and celebrate".

Or is it: 'Soulmate, I love you so much that I'm not going to touch you but draw inspiration from your ambience to grow and prosper.'

Or is it an unattached dispassionate feeling emanating from the heart, touching and bonding with every object, thing, entity and concept like 'time' and 'space' around me?

Which one is it? Is it subjective or objective? All of the above or none of the above?

Please no quotes; your very own perceptions that make you 'you'.

Does everyone have it or only the privileged few? The chosen few?

How does one acquire this marvellous virtue?

Do lookin on:(and bask in the glow)

The Latitude Syndrome
The Three Verbs of Being

May this 'love' prevail upon you soon!

Namaste from Ravi

Cecile,

I was thinking about your question of "why" ... then I was reading Conversations With God and I thought you might like this little passage:

Let's start here. The soul - your soul - knows all there is to know all the time. There's nothing hidden to it, nothing unknown. Yet knowing is not enough. The soul seeks to experience.

You can know yourself to be generous, but unless you do something which displays generosity, you have nothing but a concept. You can know yourself to be kind, but unless you do someone a kindness, you have nothing but an idea about yourself.

It is your soul's desire to turn its grandest concept about itself into its greatest experience. Until concept becomes experience, all there is is speculation. I have been speculating about Myself for a long time. Longer than you and I could collectively remember. Longer than the age of ths universe times the age of the universe. You see, then, how young is - how young is - My experience of Myself.

Click here for a more extensive excerpt.

Hadi,

I think you need to read some new jokes, mate, if you're quoting "Laugh In". :) (I vaguely remember the show myself actually) As luck would have it, yours truly has just such a list of funny sites - click here. Some of the (unintentional) humour out of the mouths of babes is classic! Enjoy.

Chris,

Your posts about the weird & wonderful world of water intrigued me. So, I did a bit of fossicking and found some more sites you might be interested in visiting - click here.

Happy B-Day Peggy, enjoy the lamb...Wonders, wonders, wonders.......

Make that ((((Hugs)))) to all!

Thank you all for the birthday greetings! I need to read back but will have to do that later tonight. I'm having a perfect birthday! We are about to go out for dinner. We will go to Sitar's for lamb pasanda (if I have my way!)

((((Jugs)))) to all!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY
PEGGY

God, how childish! The peculiar thing about that part of us we call our "shadow" is that wherever we go, it's not far behind.

Happiest of Birthdays, Peggy!

Shit-head is back I see.

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Crown/Harmony Books

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